"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
-Homer J. Simpson

Sunday, July 20, 2008

More Lingenfelter speculation

So there is more speculation about a return of Dwain Lingenfelter as the next leader of the Saskatchewan NDP. Now the newspapers are in on the act.

I found this comment particularly interesting:


at a time when Calvert can count his remaining months as party leader on his fingers

Really, with the latest poll results? I'm not sure this is the case.

That being said, yes there is talk all over the party about who the next leader is going to be. And yes, there are a group of people pushing for Link. Let me quote from my previous comments


Pros: Ability to raise a lot of money, supposedly a pretty good network still for not having lived in the province for years, possible appeal to the business community, name recognition.

Cons: First elected in the 70's (Doesn't exactly reek of renewal). Perceived as "right-wing" in the party and therefore might have trouble winning, has been out-of-province for over a decade.

Analysis: Dwain would no doubt be a strong contender if he ran. He might even have a shot at winning. That being said, other than a couple of vocal MLA's and some back room hacks from the early 90's, who is talking about this guy? I haven't met any rank and file party members who support him. I am told the support it there, but I haven't seen it in person.

And in the comments I elaborated:

And as for the "Duane Train" I would love to know which MLA's are on it. I can guess at a couple, such as Kevin Yates and maybe Ron Harper and Kim Trew, but of the big boys and girls? Higgins, Atkinson, Quenell, McCall, Taylor, Belanger, or any of the new three? [I would be surprised]
...
Again, what does a guy who was elected 30 years ago bring in terms of renewal? Nothing.

What is his vision? How will he deal with the environment, or technology, just to name two issues that have changed dramatically in the 8 years since he was last an MLA?
...
In my opinion there is a generational shift happening in politics right now. Brad Wall is actually a part of that as one of his strengths is his relative youth.

This is similar to some of the points in the news story:

Ensconced for the past eight years in his role as vice-president, government relations, for Calgary-based Nexen Inc., why Lingenfelter would give up the perks of an interesting and well-paying job with global travel to rebuild a party on the decline is a big question.

Moreover, working for an Alberta-based private oil company isn't exactly the base from which to relaunch his former 20-year career as an elected Saskatchewan New Democrat.

...

Certainly, his support for Jim Dinning in the Alberta Conservative leadership race last year and his lobbying for nuclear power in Saskatchewan (something that didn't exactly endear him to his successor as deputy premier, Clay Serby, and others in the hierarchy of Lorne Calvert's NDP government) didn't seem especially helpful.

...

They also say that he wouldn't be afraid to take on issues that the Saskatchewan NDP hasn't been addressing, like the air pollution from the Alberta oilsands being dumped on Saskatchewan or even Boyd's suggestion that the province can't touch oil royalty rates for 12 or 16 years.


The way I see it, Link has three big problems. One is that he is viewed as on the "right" of the party, which makes it a bit difficult to win the support of a left-wing social-democratic party for leader. Particularly given that the party's membership is down to the core base, the true believers right now.

Now this could be overcome two ways, either run on a left-wing platform (which might be difficult) or sell a lot of memberships to people to come on to support him. This second one might work to win the race, but it also might fracture the party. I know of at least three high-profile members of the party (not MLA's but elected to serve in some capacity) who would quit the party if Link was leader. I know of a few other left-wing rank-and-file types who would "go green" or otherwise leave if Link was leader. It is hard to know how widespread this effect is, but it might prove to be a problem. (Personaly, I have a great deal of sympathy for this position, as I have a feeling it might apply to me as well ;-)

The second biggest stumbling block (and it is somewhat related to the first) is that Link has a severe credibility problem on the Green Issue. The environment is becoming more and more of a core issue for new Democrats (particularly the younger ones) and a "Brad Wall Lite" pro-nuclear, pro oil company leader is definitely NOt wanted by a pretty large section of the party. Again, this be overcome with the same soulutions as mentioned earlier, with the same problems.

The third issue is the "generation change" issue. Again, I am note sure what a politician who was first elected before some of the current MLAs were born brings to the table in terms of renewal. I have heard that Louise Simard was approaching people to dicuss her possible run and although she recived a decent reception, the number one objection she found was "it's time for a generational change." If that applied to her, then it applies to Link in spades.

In other words, if Link wants to be taken seriously and not risk splitting the party for his own gains (by just signing up instant members, who will disappear right after the leadership race) then he needs to do a couple of things:

1) Articulate a clear vision on the environment that is not "Brad Wall" light

2) Showcase some other left-wing social plans

3) Develop a leadership team that includes a number of people under the age of 30. Have a solid plan for attracting and retaining some youth to the party.

If those conditions were met then Link just might win this whole thing and have an intact party at the end to boot. Without at least some of those conditions, well, there is going to be a problem of him, either before or after the vote.

10 comments:

Douglas said...

"Really, with the latest poll results? I'm not sure this is the case."

The poll has an error margin of 8% and as a result the poll is largely meaningless. Calvert privately has been indicating he is not going to be running the next election and as a result June 2009 is most likely going to be the leadership convention.

"1) Articulate a clear vision on the environment that is not "Brad Wall" light"

Link has already spoken out in favour of nuclear long before Brad Wall or the SP or the Liberals for that matter decided to support it. Nuclear is not a left-right issue. Just like many on the left attack nuclear but continue to drive their automobiles with little care for where the waste goes. Though I do agree the enviroment will be an important part of any renewal campaign for the NDP and who better to take on Brad Wall on raising royalty rates then an individual who has worked in the energy sector?

2. "2) Showcase some other left-wing social plans"

As the article stated Link has implemented some major social programs well Minister of Social Services so he has a record and one that he would most likely build on if he ran for leader.

3. "3) Develop a leadership team that includes a number of people under the age of 30. Have a solid plan for attracting and retaining some youth to the party."

This is something the party should be doing no matter who runs for leadership and becomes the next leader.

The NDP should be looking at the leadership race as a chance to grow its membership numbers. Certainly, some new members who vote in a leadership campaign will join only for a certain candidate but many others will stay active in the party even if their candidate does not win. Certainly, going from around 40,000 members in 1999 to around 10,000 in 2007-2008 says that the NDP really should be looking at being a big tent party.

Douglas said...

"The third issue is the "generation change" issue. Again, I am note sure what a politician who was first elected before some of the current MLAs were born brings to the table in terms of renewal. I have heard that Louise Simard was approaching people to dicuss her possible run and although she recived a decent reception, the number one objection she found was "it's time for a generational change." If that applied to her, then it applies to Link in spades."

I am not sure how you can make such a statement without even knowing if Link is going to run or not. Why not save comments on renewal for if he does run? Renewal can come from any individual. Link has been out of politics for sometime and given his background he probaly would be best for renewing the party.

Wheatsheaf said...

It is just a slow news period and Mandryk is recycling ideas instead of researching new stories.

Giant Political Mouse said...

"Link has already spoken out in favour of nuclear long before Brad Wall or the SP or the Liberals for that matter decided to support it."

That was kind of my point. There is a large swath of the party that is opposed to nuclear and they will be opposed to Link because of his stance on this issue.

"As the article stated Link has implemented some major social programs well Minister of Social Services so he has a record"

The article didn't state that, what the article said was:

"boosters point to his record on home care, day care and First Nations people when he was NDP social services minister"

What record? this is my point, I don't remember what Link did when he was the SS minister because I WAS IN GRADE SCHOOL.

Ancient history.

"Certainly, going from around 40,000 members in 1999 to around 10,000 in 2007-2008"

Where are you getting your facts from? There were 21,000 voters out of 24,000 members reported in the 2001 leadership campaign so I doubt the membership was double that two years earlier.

Like most Link supporters, you are tying to re-write history to make your candidate look good. (Although with as much history as he has....)

Get it? He's old. It was a joke.

"I am not sure how you can make such a statement without even knowing if Link is going to run or not. "

But you can make yours?

"given his background he probaly [sic] would be best for renewing the party."

You know, your profile is hidden, and you only started posting on my blog when Link was brought up, and only on the Link posts.

And you seem to get pretty worked up about it.

AstroTurf much.

Douglas said...

"What record? this is my point, I don't remember what Link did when he was the SS minister because I WAS IN GRADE SCHOOL.

Ancient history."

Hardly ancient history to the many seniors who benefit being able to live at home thanks to homecare but given your youth you do not seem to care about anybody else.

"Like most Link supporters, you are tying to re-write history to make your candidate look good. (Although with as much history as he has....)"

Is age your only issue? Like come on, come up with something better here. Your age and inexperience is showing pretty badly. Is your source that told you Larry was going to be running telling you what to post?

Douglas said...

Calvert supported part of the nuclear power cycle and the party didn't split on the issue.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2006/06/28/saskatchewan-uranium.html

Giant Political Mouse said...

1) "Hardly ancient history to the many seniors who benefit being able to live at home thanks to homecare but given your youth you do not seem to care about anybody else."

So as Minister of SOCIAL SERVICES he was responsible for a program from health? You don't think the health minister of the time had anything to do with that?

I think homecare is a fine program, I'm just not sure Link can take a lot of credit for it.

But thanks for the ad hominem attack tossed in, that will totally change my mind.

2) "Is age your only issue? Like come on, come up with something better here. Your age and inexperience is showing pretty badly."

Devastating retort. Well Played.

Except, clearly that is not my only issue since my post lists several. Whoops!

And then (and this is irony at its finest) you say that my age is the reason age is a problem for me, and that clearly no one should use age as an attack. In an attack that you yourself are using age for!

Do you hear that sound? It is the self-defeating-argument police, they are here to take you away.

3) "Calvert supported part of the nuclear power cycle and the party didn't split on the issue."

First of all I was at both conventions where the party passed resolutions supporting this move, so you can hardly argue that Calvert was going against the party in the way Link and his full-on "let's put a nuclear reactor in Saskatchewan for the purpose of powering the Alberta oil sands" approach.

Put THAT to the party and see what you get for a result.

Secondly, even with the party passing those resolutions, there was STILL a fairly large part of the party that was pissed off that we were doing that much. So to say those people would be cool with Link is a bit of a stretch.

You know, I have actually been fairly neutral on the whole Link thing up until now, you will note that in my post I was pointing out ways he could win. Sure, I didn't think he was the right ideological fit for me, but if he put forward ideas on that front i was willing to listen.

But time and time again I run into Link's crazed supporters and they just turn me off. If those are the kind of people supporting Link then count me out.

Thanks for helping my make up my mind, anonymous pro-Link troll.

Douglas said...

"So as Minister of SOCIAL SERVICES he was responsible for a program from health? You don't think the health minister of the time had anything to do with that?

I think homecare is a fine program, I'm just not sure Link can take a lot of credit for it."

It was introduced by the Minister for Social Services but reject all the facts you want.

"Do you hear that sound? It is the self-defeating-argument police, they are here to take you away."

I hear somebody who knows they lack an arguement against Link so they take on side issues. I used the age arguement to point out the stupidity but obviously that went over your head.

"Thanks for helping my make up my mind, anonymous pro-Link troll."

Yeah, you were never open to supporting Link. You made that clear when you stated if he was elected you would consider leaving the party but nice try.

Giant Political Mouse said...

Don't feed the trolls.

Douglas said...

Trolls? I am responding to your post.