On the NDP Blogging Controversy Part II
Read part I here wherein a the administrator of the blogging dippers makes a comment that is in poor taste and as a result the blogging dippers, progressive bloggers, liberal bloggers and possiby the Federal NDP all go nuts.
Discussion Point 1 - Robert McClelland
He made the correct and valid point that he is not "in charge" of the blogging dippers nor is affiliated with the federal party. He also has worked to put up discussion pieces for the blogging dippers to work through this issue. I defend freedom of speech and so Mr. McClelland had every right to say what he said. However, it was (in my opinion) offensive and should not have been said.
Discussion Point 2 - Progressive Bloggers
However, for the progressive bloggers to summarily remove him from the blog rolls is a bit of an overreaction in my opinion. It is not as if there were not enough condemnations of him floating around the net that they could reasonably argue that his speech was being tolerated or accepted.
Couldn't they have made an editorial statement saying that these types of posts were not welcome and that if another one was made THEN he would be removed?
It just makes me wonder what I will say that will get me banned someday?
Update: And I am not the only one
Uperdate: I have modified this post so many times I have lost track, but I got some e-mails about this and I wanted to be clear.
1) Progressive Bloggers has the right to ban whomever they want - I just don't agree with this particualr decision.
2) Scott Tribe has been a gentleman about the whole thing: see here here and particularly here
Discussion Point 3 - Jason Cherniak
A post from my discussion yesterday said:
which I thought was a bit unfair (at least the second part). However, Jason is far from having clean hands on these types of issues as Eugene Plawiuk points out on his blog. Cherniak can try to spin this all he wants but the fact is that he was taking advantage of the situation to attack the NPD.
Frankly, given Jason's past BS attacks on the NDP, I quite frankly think that he is doing this for Rovian reasons - using the cudgel of anti-semitism as a weapon to attack his opponents and political enemies. I think his self-congratulatory post shows that. Anything for political advantage to the Liberals[snip]
right now I think Jason is one of the most dangerous people in the political blogshpere. Don't cross him, because he can fuck you up, as this incident clearly shows.
If you want Jason's arguments completely and utterly trashed then read this post by Idealistic Pragmatist on the topic. Or even (warning: blogging tory link) here
Update: to sum it all up I go to Mike's comments over here
However, my major beef isn't with Jason, it is with the Federal Party that gave him the ammunition to do this, which brings me to my next point
Robert may insult my sensibilities, but Jason endangers my liberty. I know which of the two worries me more.
Discussion Point 4 - The Federal NDP
I guess there will be a blogging dipper "official" blog roll from the Federal NDP. Hopefully this will lead them getting a freeeking clue when it comes to the blogosphere (read my comments from part I)
For example, why the hell does Cherniak get to throw these facts in my face (from the comments section of yesterday's post)
And he gets to add insult to injury by pointing this out in his blog:
To be fair to your party, though, none of the NDP bloggers have a readership equivalent to me or Kinsella.
these are all true facts, and the Federal NDP needs to give it's head a shake. If you want the NDP blogs to cover NDP-related news then, oh, I don't know......tell NDP blogs the news?
When Jack Layton did a blog interview, it was with the head of the Blogging Tories. Today, when the NDP wanted to counteract Mr. McClelland's comment and disclaim any connection to him, they used me and Warren Kinsella.
Nah, that'll never work.
However, this plan is not without it's own possible problems. As the Jurist points out this could lead to MORE of these types of situations, not less.
And for more possible problems read the post (and comments) over here
Discussion Point 5 - The Blogging Dippers
Major hat tips need to go out to Northern BC dipper for this
and the Mind of a Netjin for this
and especially leethaxor for
Update: My comments posters corrected me - it was Netjin that set it all up - my bad.
The blogging dippers are starting to band together to deal with this situation and for that those mentioed above (and others if I forgot you) should be commended.
Unlike the progressive bloggers the blogging dippers are attempting to set up a democratic process with open and transparent debate.
I'm not sure this is the answer to the problem, but already the blogging dippers have proved to be better at dealing with this situation than either the progressive bloggers or the Federal NDP.
9 comments:
Just a note, leethaxor didn't set it up, he contributed to getting it known, the setup was all mine (well, mine, and the many open-source programmers who worked on Drupal and Advanced Polling)
Thanks for that - and thanks for the work. I'll fix this post
"It just makes me wonder what I will say that will get me banned someday?"
I will voice my displeasure at removing someone based upon one thing they've said, just as I did the other day. Although it may seem like a knee jerk reaction to remove My Blahg from the roll (and may not have been something I'd personally have done), it's Wayne's site, and he had the final say based on the advice of the moderators.
Since Robert refused to back away from his bitter and indifferent statement as to the security of his Jewish neighbours, removing him was probably best in that it gives the pitchfork crowd and those genuinely offended a little satisfaction. The moderator team is currently discussing how long the ban will be in place - but again it's ultimately up to Wayne Chu.
GPM,
I didn't expect a lot of people to agree with my position so I am not surprised you do not.
FWIW I am no longer in the NDP, but I can say that if I still was when this started, I wouldn't be this morning. The way the Federal Party handled this was horrendous. A real slap in the face.
No matter what people think of Robert, its a whole different blogsphere out there today and Jason seems to be gloating just a little too much.
If they had announced that the ban was only going to be temporary - as a punishment for making inappropriate comments - then I could live with that. A permanent ban with no warning is what bothers me
Mike: I am not sure where you are coming from? I disagreed with some of your points yesterday but used you as an example of exactly what I thought today ;-)
It was my understanding that Jason contacted the Ed Morgan at the Canadian Jewish congress about the blog incident,and Morgan, in turn, contacted the NDP president. The NDP responded to that communication and individual,and that written response was cc'd to Jason from the Jewish Congress.
As the blogging dippers are not officially connected to the NDP, it was actually good that they didn't overstep their boundaries, as they have no juridiction or affiliation with this independent blogging group.
to my way of seeing this stomach turn, this was politically smart - making the annoying bug of au la Jason - go away and not get caught up in Jason's antics.
for the blogging dippers this was good - because there was no hard blow back unless you think that starting up an official NDP blogging group is a threat which I don't. It will be what it will, if it materializes, and the blogging dippers can continue to suppport and critize the NDP as pushing from outside.
"If they had announced that the ban was only going to be temporary - as a punishment for making inappropriate comments "
Just an FYI - Anti-Semitism is never merely "inappropriate".
cat fur: Oh lord - can the PC police take a step back? The comments were inappropriate. They were wrong. However, I don't think that Robert is a racist or an anti-Semite. I think he made the comment without thinking and now is too stubborn to take it back. That is a poor decision but one he is allowed to make. It is the over-the-top reaction of people like you who get upset because I didn't condemn the comments loud enough or long enough that piss off the reasonable people in these types of situations.
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